When you have contaminated transmission fluid that has bits of this and that in it This is an indication that you have bigger problems inside the converter or transmission. Logging in sets the wordpress_logged_in_xx, wordpress_sec_xx, and/or wordpress_xx cookies, which store the user's login credentials to allow access to the administrative dashboard and other administrative functions; there may be multiple iterations of each cookie. So when the torque converter clutch engages there should be almost 0rpm difference between tc slip desired and tc slip act. There is going to be some slip. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. Hence, you've commanded your torque converter every time your car shifted gears. 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. another masterpiece. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. Last fall, the external filter disintegrated and clogged up the cooler. This sounds really great, and it is. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. This means that at a 2:1 torque multiplication ratio, an engine that is making 300 lb-ft of torque at a stall speed of 2,500 rpm will actually apply 600 lb-ft of torque to the input shaft of the transmission as the car leaves the starting line. Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. I just checked it yesterday and it was right at the full indicator with the transmission properly warmed up. Unless you have tune that keeps the converter unlocked, the converter should've locked. Contaminated transmission fluid can cause damage to your converter parts and your transmissions parts. I never saw a problem with the converter, it never went over 3 to 4 RPM slippage at WOT with it locked. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. Torque Converter Engaged while pulling??? The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. The reason for increasing stall speed is directly related to the engine's torque curve. But now with the Spartan 275 I am seeing 18.24 at WOT with the converter locked. The TCC solenoid regulates the fluid pressure to the clutch. The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. It may not display this or other websites correctly. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Manage Preferences - The faster it spins, the more force it provides, which causes the fluid to flow faster and harder. 6l90 TCC apply ramp strategy. ECCC - HPTuners I cant imagine the hours of work which you must have put into understanding these various transmissions, to say nothing of writing up a description that a simpleton like me could (mostly) understand. This very similar to what I experienced with my failure. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case, The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. If you use the buttons to make a payment or donation, the PayPal services will set additional cookies (not listed here) to manage your PayPal login and transaction data (and potentially also for various other purposes, e.g., user analytics and/or advertising). 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I have read and accepted the Privacy Policy Petrol / Gas. ), These third-party cookies may be set in connection with embedded video players for content hosted on the Vimeo video platform, for purposes such as (without limitation) managing video settings, storing video preferences, providing certain functionality (e.g., allowing you to pause a video at a particular point), associating your video viewing and other activity with your Vimeo account (if you have one), showing you advertising, ensuring proper functioning of the service, preventing abuse, and/or compiling user analytics data. 1. and 2. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. check out the. The confusion stems from the symptoms of a failing transmission, and a failing torque converter is very similar and linked. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b42f522a79 Whether it will add to my working knowledge is debatable, but my brain will benefit from the workout. 5r110 torque slip | Ford Power Stroke Nation and our If governor pressure dropped below that threshold, the clutch would disengage. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. abs thank you for posting your experience here. (author diagram). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Wilson pre-selectors were pretty well established technology, although not common, by the late 30s. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." (author diagram). Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. Torque Converter Slip Measurement / Diagnosis | Ford Explorer - Ford I found the cause of the P0325 and P0330 error codes. Torque converter slip question - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums :whs: I was seeing 200-300 on the 310 with the stock converter but still felt really strong! In a car with a good suspension and sticky tires, you can use extra rpm to put the engine closer to its torque peak, launching the car even more quickly. We may sometimes present an alternative version of the sidebar offering different options, which may set the a11y-desaturated, a11y-high-contrast, and/or a11y-larger-fontsize cookies if you change those settings. This setting is stored in your browser (or other user agent) in the gdpr[consent_types] cookie described in "Privacy and Cookie Preferences" above, so if you delete that cookie or access the Ate Up With Motor website from a different device, browser, or user agent, you will need to adjust this setting again if you still wish to hide the box. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Do you want them slipping when driving? This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. Im not able to provide repair or maintenance advice, sorry! Since the transmission was largely dependent on the torque converter for torque multiplication, it was crucial that the lockup clutch not engage prematurely and that there be some means to immediately disengage it for acceleration. For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. If you delete or disable these cookies, your existing preferences will be lost and you may not be able to save your privacy settings for this website. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. 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It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. Ive been troubleshooting a low RPM with light acceleration shudder on my 2011 EcoBoost Flex. Torque Converters - Unlocking The Secrets - Car Craft Magazine - MotorTrend There was also a kickdown mechanism that allowed the driver to disengage the clutch at road speeds between 13 and 56 mph (21 and 90 km/h) by flooring the accelerator, allowing the torque converter to again multiply torque. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics register to join our community You must be at least 18 to comment. Borg-Warner continued to sell the DG series for several more years to some non-U.S. customers, but U.S. automakers would not rediscover the lockup clutch for another 20 years. In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - (author diagram). the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Once the vehicle is moving at a constant speed, the speed difference between the impeller and turbine diminishes, eventually reaching a minimum point known as coupling stage. As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. We were wrong. But once they are damaged, you will experience fluid leaks. As youll see if you look at the first one, the original iteration had three speeds forward and one reverse, for which it requires four epicyclic gearsets. (Until late 1954, the transmissions planetary gearset always remain in direct drive unless the driver manually selected Low.) In third gear, the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DGs lockup clutch drives the transmissions output shaft at engine speed, providing a completely mechanical direct drive with no hydraulic slippage. Starting in Drive provided a maximum starting ratio of 3.10:1 (a mechanical ratio of 1.44:1 times a nominal torque converter stall ratio of 2.16:1 at around 1,600 rpm), which was better than the early Ultramatic or Dynaflow, but still made for lazy performance, especially with Studebakers six-cylinder engine. To avoid stalling or lugging the engine, the clutch would automatically disengage if road speed fell below 13 mph (21 km/h). Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. Transmission Range) start a datalog or have an assistant drive and watch Torque Converter Slip Actual (TCA) and Torque Converter Slip Desired (TCD). After logging in, the wp-settings-UID cookies store the logged-in user's configuration settings, while the wp-settings-time-UID cookies record the time those configuration settings were last set; again, there may be multiple iterations of each of these cookies, which normally expire after about one year. How exactly are you measuring how much the tc is slipping? It's all about creating an overall tuned package that complements the rest of your car. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. 51.91.16.67 Dr. Tranny helped for a short time and then the car became entirely undriveable. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. Your Transmission Gear Ratio at Finish Line. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. They normally expire after about one year. would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. I drove only sticks for years by choice. but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. Also, as we explained in the sidebar of our article on GMs other early automatic transmissions, torque converters utilize the speed difference between the driving and driven torus members to multiply engine torque. This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. Your IP: The turbine and lockup clutch driven plate are both splined to the transmission input shaft (medium blue). In fact, Cadillacs chief engineer ordered an early Daimler Double Six with the Wilson and Laurence Pomeroys Fluid Flywheel for evaluation purposes. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. The second thing to look for is a lot of slippage between Desired and Actual readings for the TCC in Forscan. Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. We thought 10 was bad 2 years ago. The turbine has a spline that attaches to the transmission input shaft, which connects to the internal parts of the transmission to shift gears and provide power to the wheels. Required fields are marked *. If the payment button is visible, it may set the third-party cookies PYPF (via paypalobjects.com, which is owned by PayPal, Inc.), which appears to check whether or not you are a logged-in PayPal user, possibly to facilitate the PayPal user login process, and/or 01A1 (via abmr.net, which is owned by Akamai Technologies), which stores certain technical information about your device and browser (or other user agent), possibly to facilitate the login and shopping cart functions. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our. There are many different types oftorque converter problems. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. A spring-loaded plunger valve controlled oil flow to the lockup clutchs hydraulic cylinder. On some prewar bus and rail car transmissions with lockup torque converters, the lockup clutch was engaged manually, but automotive lockup clutches are designed to engage and disengage automatically. Unlike a reduction gear, this speed reduction doesnt multiply engine torque. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. In order to get a realistic value, use: Your finish line MPH (from ET slip) Your finish line RPM. It does drove different than a lock up. (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) Second, the nonlinear relationship between impeller and turbine speed can be troublesome. This is not an official website of any automaker or automotive brand! Some vehicles have a transmission temperature indicator that will let you know when your car's transmission is overheating. Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. It took the addition of a small device called the stator to increase the efficiency of the fluid coupling and transform it into a torque converter. For one, the engine would stall every time the vehicle came to a halt with the lockup clutch engaged unless the driver shifted to neutral each time. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. Well Aaron . It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. A converter that might have a stall speed of 5,000 rpm for a pure drag car would be completely miserable on the street. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. * Various services, specials, or coupon offers are available at participating locations only. For a drag-race car, the cost of this additional slippage is worth the price, but for a street car it creates other problems. The good news is, if it is just your torque converter that is having issues since it's a self-contained unit, you may not need to replace or rebuild your whole transmission. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. You usually notice your car shuddering because itfeels like it's vibrating. The torque converter is made up of five parts: The stator is called the middleman.